Winter Fuel Allowance

[sir.prize]

Should it be paid to pensioners living in warmer climes?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24924228

Apparently in 2015 they will no longer qualify. That will be a big saving.

[B00]

That's all well and good emmie, but im willing to bet that in the 60's for example that two thirds of the working population were men, whilst their wives stayed at home. So these women, now at a pensionable age have not paid into the system, though their husbands obviously did.

[Zeuhl]

/I still cannot understand why you would think that if I moved to Marbella for example the UK Govt should help me keep warm. /

prudie - it's very simple

if you were entitled to a state pension you would be entitled to WFA:

if you lived in a mansion in northern scotland during an arctic-like winter

if you lived in a mansion in torquay during a mild and slightly chilly winter

so why wouldn't your entitlement continue if you moved to a little cottage in Marbella during a mild and slightly chilly winter?

the allowance is designed to help keep pensioners warm - so what would have changed?

[craft1948]

B00 I only stayed at home until my daughter started school. Out of our street in the 60's/70's I only knew 1 mother who packed in work altogether.

[B00]

When i made my assumption up there crafty, I Googled afterwards and oddly enough (I usually turn out to be wrong!) the statistics I found seemed to back up my assumptions, so whilst i obviously can't argue with you or emmie, it does seem that both your experiences weren't the norm.

[Yorky Lass]

Everyone keeps saying Pensioner as though they are receiving State Pension. Winter Fuel Payment is paid to 60 year olds not just those receiving State Pension. Someone could receive this payment and still be working.
I posted this on a previous post:-

You’ll qualify for Winter Fuel Payment if:
you were born on or before 5 January 1952 (for winter 2013 to 2014 - this date changes every year)
you normally live in the UK throughout the week of 16 to 22 September 2013

[B00]

so you can't get it if you're an expat?

*confused*

[FredPuli43]

Sqad, Roma and other immigrants will certainly be entitled to WFA, if they are of pensionable age and also qualify for a state pension. How many do you think do? None? A few ? How?

Your dragging in of immigrants suggests a use of them as a peculiar object of dislike; you sitting in immigrant status abroad, in a climate much warmer than ours, but still thinking you are entitled to the WFA to help with your fuel bills.

[Sqad]

\\\you were born on or before 5 January 1952 (for winter 2013 to 2014 - this date changes every year)
you normally live in the UK throughout the week of 16 to 22 September 2013\\\

Is there an "AND" between" the 2 above requirements or an "OR?"

[Yorky Lass]

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility

"You may still be able to get the payment if you live in another European Economic Area (EEA) country or Switzerland and you have a genuine link with the UK."

I wonder what is classed as a genuine link ????

[Sqad]

BOO...I am an exPat, I get the WFA and I don't live in the UK at all. I can't understand yorkys post.

[Sqad]

Fred...read my posts.......I have said that the UK can have my £200.

I don't know how many immigrants will need the WFA as I have no faith whatsoever in Governmental figures or estimates.

[mikey4444]

Not sure why would a pensioner living in, lets say Spain, deserves or needs this payment. Anyway, it should be means tested, just like Child Benefit.

[bazwillrun]

in the bigger scheme of things the savings are peanuts.

if theyve paid in then they should get what the rules say they should.

[sunny-dave]

I disagree mikey - winter fuel allowance is one of the few 'universal benefits' left.

We can't keep saying "you don't need this, so you can't have it" to people who have paid to keep 'the system' going - eventually that class of people will revolt & say "stuff the system, there's nowt in it for me & I'm not paying in any more" - you need to leave them a few crumbs.


Actually there is a counter-intuitive (but actually quite convincing) argument for saying that the winter fuel payment should ONLY go to people who AREN'T on any means tested benefit - those who are on benefit are already receiving endless state funded help with bills, it's the rest of us who need a sub ...

[hawksley]

Tora Tora Do you ever do any researching before you post ???

[New Judge]

Weather for London for the next five days:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/

Weather for Madrid for the next five days:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/3117735

Note the difference in night time temperatures. As the winter progresses Madrid get progressively colder at night than London. It makes no more sense to suggest that people living in Spain should not receive WFA whilst those living in Belgium should as it makes to suggest people living Torquay should not receive it whilst those in Carlisle should.

[FredPuli43]

And, NJ, how do you think the cost of heating a home compares between the two places ? I'll give you a clue about warmer climes. My flat in Antibes had one tiny radiator, about 14 iches wide, to heat the drawing room. The room was about 30 feet by 20, and had full length windows opening on to the terrace at one end.

The idea behind the WFA was to help pensioners in the British climate, because of the cost of heating being so high here in our Winter. It was not expressed as a pension payment, which some on here seem to think it is.

[New Judge]

Quite so, Fred. And I deliberately chose Madrid because I know that, being in the centre of a large land mass, the climate there is somewhat different to the popular retirement destinations on the Spanish “Costas”. But the government has chosen, for its criteria to deny people the WFA “…EEA countries with an average winter temperature higher than the warmest part of the UK.”. The average winter temperature in Spain (as a whole) is almost certainly higher than south west England. But parts of it (such as Madrid and probably the northern area in the southern Pyrenees) are probably not (depending on the period chosen as “winter”).

However, all of this is by the way. The government may well still find itself on the wrong end of a court ruling because they are discriminating against citizens based on where they live in the EU, and this is not generally permitted. They could not deny those living in Plymouth the benefit whilst paying it to those in Newcastle and I see no difference between in that and denying it to a person living in Spain. Curiously I find it interesting to note that arch proponents of the EU such as Jake seem to support this discrimination but would not countenance any other form of discrimination such as ensuring that jobs in the UK go to UK citizens only. Free movement of people is the EU's second most proud achievement and it is hardly fair to penalise pensioners on a somewhat arbitrary basis just because they chose to take advantage of that.

[FredPuli43]

NJ , I rather suspected that you chose Madrid for that reason. The average annual temperature for the country is far higher than Britain's, but the average winter temperature for individual places in it can be not far off ours; you can imagine that somewhere high in the Spanish Pyrenees could be worse. But nobody is likely to be retiring there. Why would they? And if they did and wanted to divorce themselves from the country for which the WFA was intended, so be it.

[yansee]

Just shows how ridiculous the benefit system is,pensioners here deserve it,pensioners living abroad do not.